Talk:Westport, County Mayo

CREATING A COMPREHENSIVE ARTICLE FOR WESTPORT

It is time Westport had a comprehensive article. I would be grateful if anyone who knows Westport could make this an article to be proud of, foucusing on the towns history, economy, culture, and natural surroundings. I myself will add to it as often as I can, but as I am not at home I have few photographs etc. to offer.--Brendanconway 12:02, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'll do my best to get some good photos. By the way aren't beeves slaughtered, rather than fully-grown cattle? Evertype 09:02, 2005 May 12 (UTC)

If I can think of anything to add, I'll be happy too. Although I'm in Cambridgeshire, UK, I've got family in Westport. Lovely town, good page.--Burwellian 13:31, 24 Jun 2005 (BST)

Left a small article on Westport United. Hope that users may appreciate our local football club on wikipedia.

Hi, was just wondering if anybody would like to help with the eagrán Gaeilge on this article. Cheers. Scuzzball 03:09, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Framed photos

Would whoever put up the framed pics pl remove the frames or they may be deleted. Sarah777 (talk) 09:06, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Population

This is a saved copy of the populations table.

Historical population
Year	Pop.	±%
1821	4,326	—
1831	24,448	+465.1%
1841	4,365	−82.1%
1851	4,114	−5.8%
1861	3,819	−7.2%
1871	4,417	+15.7%
1881	4,469	+1.2%
1891	4,070	−8.9%
1901	3,892	−4.4%
1911	3,674	−5.6%
1926	3,488	−5.1%
1936	3,409	−2.3%
1946	3,240	−5.0%
1951	3,104	−4.2%
1956	2,947	−5.1%
1961	2,882	−2.2%
1966	2,927	+1.6%
1971	3,023	+3.3%
1981	3,378	+11.7%
1986	3,456	+2.3%
1991	3,688	+6.7%
1996	4,520	+22.6%
2002	5,634	+24.6%
2006	5,475	−2.8%
^[1]

1831 appears to be a simple typo so I have 'corrected' it in the main article. Thus reducing population growth in the 1820's from a "highly improbable and somewhat exhausting", Leporidaen, 465% to a realistic 2.8%. If I am wrong, please feel free to restore the data, with a valid reference. Autodidactyl (talk) 09:31, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And they all died or left years before the famine started. Must have been the Great Westport Goldrush! Sarah777 (talk) 09:39, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

lol. Thanks Sarah, with your endorsement I'm sure nobody will dare contradict.... apart from those that regard 'baiting' as a key part of the sport of debating. :) Autodidactyl (talk) 10:07, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ http://www.cso.ie/census and www.histpop.org. Post 1996 figrues include environs of Westport. For a discussion on the accuracy of pre-famine census returns see JJ Lee “On the accuracy of the pre-famine Irish censuses” in Irish Population, Economy and Society edited by JM Goldstrom and LA Clarkson (1981) p54, and also “New Developments in Irish Population History, 1700-1850” by Joel Mokyr and Cormac Ó Gráda in The Economic History Review, New Series, Vol. 37, No. 4 (Nov., 1984), pp. 473-488.

Cathair na Mart

I removed a line that stated that Westport was historically known as 'cahernamart'. It was historically known as 'cathair na mart'. 'cahernamart' is just the anglicised version of the older Irish name, used by English speaking authors, etc. The region was Irish speaking and the Irish version would be the oldest and most accurate one. Plus the reference cited stated 'cathair na mart', not 'cahernamart'. The history of the name is also discussed in the history section, so probably no need to mention it in the opening paragraph.

Regarding the meaning of Cathair na Mart, historically in the references it translates as the 'stone fort of the beeves', modern gaeilge literal translations aren't relevant as they don't accurately translate the term.

Cathair na Mart is the historic (and current) Irish name, while Cahernamart is the historic Anglicization. When I added Cahernamart, I wasn't suggesting that it was the only historic name. References to Cahernamart can be found here (look at page 2 of the archival records). ~Asarlaí 03:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cathair na Mart does not trranslate as 'City of the Bull' that is incorrect and explained above, it historically translates as Stone Fort of the Beeves. It was the name of an O'Malley tower House castle (fort) which gave its name to the original village of Cathair na Mart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Westporthistory (talk • contribs) 22:41, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if that's directed at me, but I wasn't the one who added the translation. ~Asarlaí 22:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Irish Planned Towns

(Preliminary draft 21.07.2010, this iteration 27.07.2010, amended 05.08.2010)

In the absence of editorial input by the original author, I decided to remove the claim that Westport is "one of the few planned towns in the country (by James Wyatt in 1780)" for the following reasons.

Virtually all Irish towns from the Norman period onward were planned, although we may not always be able to identify the actual designer. Any reflection on the nature and form of towns will conclude that they were planned in the same way, though usually perhaps not to the same elegance, as Westport.

The Normans brought to Ireland the concept of founding towns as a mechanism for extracting wealth from their new fiefdoms. In medieval times, the idea was that the founding knight, the landlord, laid out the town as a series of streets and divided the land on each side of the streets into plots usually of equal width. He then invited tenants to rent these plots (and in the case of many of the early Norman Irish towns these were craftsmen from England and Wales). The craftsmen/traders then built properties on these plots, with a trading ground floor facing the street, with their residence on the floor or floors above. As only the front portion of the plot was thus developed, the remainder of the plot, the back garden, was generally cultivated for agricultural produce, but in time, frequently became developed in whole or in part, as the business expanded. Consequent on taking leases, the tenants achieved in the medieval feudal system, the coveted status of freeman burgers. The burgers paid an annual rent to the landlord, who also generated income from taxes on the weekly or monthly fair (having ensured for this purpose that in the town's design that a market square or even a modest widening of one street was provided), as well as court fines and other various taxes, which included "murage" a tax to pay for the erection of a defensive wall around the town.

The founding of the town had to be approved under the feudal system by the overlord, usually the Norman king of England. Many of these Regal documents approving the settlement, known as a town's charter, still survive, and the RHA in Dublin's Dawson Street preserves a selection of Irish town's charters. Amongst the matters regulated by the town's charter was the width of the burger's plots and from the charters of Kells, Kilkenny and Carlow (charter 1208), (all 13th century?) it appears that the width of the burger's plot in these towns approximated to the modern dimension of 6.1 metres.

Most of the original Norman towns were planned with only a single street, though more sophisticated layouts were planned featuring multiple streets forming a series of urban blocks (the lands between the streets) as in the cases of Drogheda (planned with a total of 13 blocks) about as extensive as Westport planned about 500 years later, and other towns with a multiple block layout, and thus a number of streets include Athenry, Dungarvan (founded 1185, charter granted 1215) and Wexford. In places such as Kells, the street network probably adopted pre-existing street patterns from the preceding monastic layout, but in Dungarvan the present street layout in the town centre preserves the original orthogonal grid iron layout.

Waves of town foundations in Ireland subsequent to the Normans adopted similar approaches in their layouts. Principal amongst there were the 16th century plantation towns mainly in Northern Ireland but including Portlaoise (as the town of Maryborough, accorded the status of borough town in 1569 consequent of the Act of 1566), and later the 18th century towns frequently a regeneration of earlier towns by the local landlord, including Westport and other towns such as Ballinasloe, and Cootehill (a patent to hold fairs, a contemporary incarnation of the town's charter granted to Thomas Coote in the early 18th century).

From the above brief outline it must be concluded that Westport, though a particularly attractive example, was not only not unique, but was typical of Irish towns which had been planned from the 12th century onwards.

References include:

Graham 2000 Bradley 1976(unpublished thesis in UCD Joyce Library) Butlin The Irish Town 1977

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.254.230 (talk) 23:00, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External Links

Just wondering do we link all articles relating to westport, in the external links. Their is an article not mentioned here — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brancott (talk • contribs) 14:14, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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[1] ttp://www.cso.ie/census and www.histpop.org. Post 1996 figrues include environs of Westport. For a discussion on the accuracy of pre-famine census returns see JJ Lee “On the accuracy of the pre-famine Irish censuses” in Irish Population, Economy and Society edited by JM Goldstrom and LA Clarkson (1981) p54, and also “New Developments in Irish Population History, 1700-1850” by Joel Mokyr and Cormac Ó Gráda in The Economic History Review, New Series, Vol. 37, No. 4 (Nov., 1984), pp. 473-488.

[1]