Talk:Southeast Europe

Southeastern Europe

24.189.3.230 said BUT: they're different, that's like saying a Canadian is the same thing as a South African!!!!

Uhh, except that it isn't. The terms are synonymous in the real world regardless of your "subregion" agenda. --Joy [shallot] 13:56, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Request to merge with Balkans

User:Dbachmann requested that this article should be merged with Balkans, without giving any reason.

• I Oppose the request. If this article can be shown to have merit, in some models it describes an area that is bigger than the Balkans. --Red King (talk) 13:23, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

• Support. Absolutely. Southeastern Europe is Chechnya or Georgia. The Balkans may be Central-South. --Lysy^talk 19:15, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support It even states in the introduction of this article that it is a name for the balkans. This whole article is just a different name for the Balkans, and merging them would make both articles better. A section in the merged article about names would be a useful addition too. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 01:55, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose. These are 2 different regions. Southeast Europe may be considered Balkans as Balkans is clearly within this part of Europe, however, SE also encompasses countries outside the Balkans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.32.36.43 (talk) 06:17, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

• Support. But Balkan should be redirecting to Southeast Europe due to the last term is neutral term should we have to use.

Gsarwa (talk) 06:48, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Given that this article is simple about an alternative term for the Balkans, I do not see why it merits a separate page. Furthermore, it seems that the creators do not have many things to fill the article with as half of the content is about obscure EU initiatives, etc.--Bucharwm (talk) 02:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. The Southeastern Europe is a completely different term from Balkans. Balkans is just a peninsula in Southeastern Europe, but not the region itself. Yes, Southeast Europe mostly covers the Balkans, but not only the peninsula. There is a reason why both words exist and they DO NOT mean the same thing. I think that these two pages MUSTN'T be merged by any chance! We want Wikipedia to be accurate and correct! Filipdr (talk) 18:16, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. The article seems to cover more than just the balkans Chipmunkdavis (talk) 04:06, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose . Geographically speaking the distances from Romania (where i'm from), to the N,W,E,S points of Europe (these can be found here for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_points_of_Europe ) are (using: http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm): 1000km to the south in Greece, 2800 To Portugal in the West, 2800 To Norway in the North, and approx 2700-2800 to the Ural Mountains - not taking islands into consideration. So...by this definition Romania is in south-central(roughly) Europe and everything underneath it is South Europe - which means the Balkans ofc. So...South-eastern Europe would be...actually just the Black Sea and the region North of the Caucasus.

From a political standpoint....that's another discussion. Numaru7 (talk) 20:11, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. Unlike the Balkan peninsula definition, Southeastern Europe includes the entirety of Slovenia and Croatia within the definition of Southeastern Europe.--R-41 (talk) 12:08, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
• Question: What happened with this discussion? Reached anywhere? --E4024 (talk) 10:58, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

"Extended sense"

I'm removing this section as I have waited more than three weeks and the material is still absolutely unreferenced.

This theory is listed at the Balkans article:

The father of the term "The Balkans" August Zeune defined it in 1808 to describe areas that remained under Turkish rule after 1699.

This is about the Balkans, NOT Southeast Europe and countries like Hungary, Slovakia, Austria are not included in this definition. Squash Racket (talk) 12:05, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I also oppose, as in economic sense, used by companies Southeastern European market is (most cases) fall under the umbrella of countries including Slovenia, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, sometimes Austria (as listed by Squash Racket), and is used similarly like EMEA (Europe, Middle-East & Africa). 164.129.1.42 (talk) 14:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

If Austria or Hungary are in Southeastern Europe, then where would countries like Georgia, Azerbaijan or Chechnya be ? --Lysy^talk 19:22, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Those countries are usually considered the Caucasus region. Goustien (talk) 04:52, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Criteria??

Which of the mentioned criteria is used to list the SEE Countries? The way it looks now - no criteria at all. One must take one or more criteria and then list the countries. I suggest to use UN as a reliable source. Hammer of Habsburg (talk) 16:10, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request (Ref. 6)

Ref 6 is not reachable. Could someone correct it please? Thanks in advance. --E4024 (talk) 11:00, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Done! --79.160.40.10 (talk) 11:14, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Balkan Music

Balkan Music has a typical rhythm. It is neither European nor Asian but a very fine fusion of both. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kbx911 (talk • contribs) 13:12, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

New changes

@Noseamuseos: your new changes in article has been reverted because southeast-europe.net is not reliable source. Map on page concerns "South East Europe Transnational Cooperation Programme", not geographical things. Also, Slovakia and Austria (see map in source) lies in South East Europe? Absurd. According to Wikipedia:CYCLE, before new controversial changes must to be discuss and consensus. @Tanper: your change is also controversial [1]. Noseamuseos and Tanper - both, please not continue the edit-war. Discuss please, below. Subtropical-man talk
(en-2) 23:19, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Changes after 16 August 2014‎ has been reverted, discuss and consensus first. Subtropical-man talk
(en-2) 23:42, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

I've already provided a reliable source from CIA that put Croatia within Southeast Europe under Geography section Croatia but the reverts continue. Noseamuseos (talk) 23:31, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Slovenia and Croatia are both generally excluded due to their political, economical and cultural differences and the geographical connection is somewhat vague.

Noseamuseos' reasoning concernig Turkey is flawed since Turkish part in SE Europe has more population than Slovenia and Croatia combined and more land mass. Not to mention its cultural influences on neighbouring countries. Few sources could list Slovenia or Croatia as SE country, but the general consensus is that they are not. There are numerous sources listing them as Central European. Tanper (talk) 23:34, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Slovenia is not part of the question here. Romania has very small population but is included. The geography is important here. Plus I've already provided a reliable source from CIA (I hope you are not Anti-American) that put Croatia within Southeast Europe under its Geography section Croatia From the CIA source - "Location: Southeastern Europe, bordering the Adriatic Sea, between Bosnia and Herzegovina and Slovenia" Noseamuseos (talk) 23:38, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

And here we have Croatia in Central Europe. As I noted, you can find few sources saying otherwise, but the general census is as it is. Romania is Eastern / South Eastern, that does not relate to Croatia. Tanper (talk) 23:45, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

1. One more reliable source from UN agency: [2] "Croatia: 2014 UNHCR regional operations profile - South-Eastern Europe." 2. Plus my previous reliable source from CIA: "Location: Southeastern Europe, bordering the Adriatic Sea, between Bosnia and Herzegovina and Slovenia." Croatia Noseamuseos (talk) 23:58, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Croatia is traditionally counted to the western balkans and with this also to southeast europe. It is also counted into central europe if cultural and historical relations are counted in. I have now put some sources into the article for croatia as part of southeast europe. Kind regards Seader (talk) 08:47, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Nice section title. Eric ^talk 03:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

References

Regarding the whole "significant" and "partial" part under "Definition" section

There's been way too many OR and personal opinion edits on this, mostly from IP users from countries that don't want to see their respective countries be identified with and/or included in the broader definition of the peninsula, in any way whatsoever. This is presumably because of the widespread negative view of the region. So, to avoid this "edit clashing", I suggest just including all countries in one coherent list, rather than dividing them by territorial percentages which seem more or less arbitrary. ProKro (talk) 18:42, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Dr. Urban's comment on this article

Dr. Urban has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:

Some background information on the Stability Pact such as the breakup of former Yugoslavia and the wars on the Balkan Peninsula are missing.

We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

We believe Dr. Urban has expertise on the topic of this article, since he has published relevant scholarly research:

• Reference : Vasily Astrov & Vladimir Gligorov & Peter Havlik & Mario Holzner & Gabor Hunya & Anna Iara & Sebastian Leitner & Zdenek Lukas & Anton Mihailov & Olga Pindyuk & Leon Podkaminer & Josef Poschl & Sandor , 2009. "Differentiated Impact of the Global Crisis," wiiw Forecast Reports 3, The Vienna Institute for International Economic Studies, wiiw.

ExpertIdeasBot (talk) 16:53, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Dr. Holzner's comment on this article

Dr. Holzner has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:

There are hardly any additional informations apart from the issue of the definition of the region.

We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

We believe Dr. Holzner has expertise on the topic of this article, since he has published relevant scholarly research:

• Reference : Vasily Astrov & Serkan Cicek & Rumen Dobrinsky & Vladimir Gligorov & Doris Hanzl-Weiss & Peter Havlik & Mario Holzner & Gabor Hunya & Sebastian Leitner & Olga Pindyuk & Leon Podkaminer & Sandor Richte, 2014. "On Thin Ice: CESEE Core Resilient in the Face of EU Stagnation and the Ukraine Crisis," wiiw Forecast Reports Autumn2014, The Vienna Institute for International Economic Studies, wiiw.

ExpertIdeasBot (talk) 20:17, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Top illustration

There has been many discussions in different "X-ern Europe" articles about maps purporting to illustrate the region. Since many of these articles actually use a lot of space to discuss different definitions, and since none of these regions are well-defined, it has generally been concluded that any map showing a specific definition is not suitable as a top illustration. In this case, the CIA World Facebook classification map is just one of many possible classification. It is a good idea to use the map, but it will have to be in a separate subsection under the "Definition" section. I have reinserted the former top map and created a new subsection for the CIA classification.

Regarding the other map presented with caption "Countries in Southeast Europe", I have again removed it. For one thing, it is of very low technical quality. Secondly, it is inaccurate (colouring parts of Greece and Bulgaria as Turkish). And thirdly, it is not consistent with any of the definitions of SE Europe presented in the article. --T*U (talk) 13:34, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Still, the map of south-eastern Europe is not similar to that of the Balkans (used in the corresponding article). (Rgvis (talk) 09:31, 21 October 2019 (UTC))

The definitions of neither Balkans nor Southern Europe are well-defined, and they may or may not coincide. My main concern is to secure that we do not give the impression of pushing one specific definition. I am happy with your current edits, since they are quite helpful in this regard. Thanks! --T*U (talk) 13:13, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Infobox

Should we include an infobox here. I feel it would be a good visual and would benefit this article greatly.2600:100C:A211:38E7:3099:5E76:3DC8:D156 (talk) 20:57, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Kalmykhia

Haven't you looked at it map of Europe? The longest river in Europe is the Volga, which flows into the Caspian Sea. That is wher South Eastern Europe is. PS Anatolia is in Western Asia Stop being stupid 46.97.168.251 (talk) 15:10, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Geographical Southeast Europe - source?

In the section "Geographical Southeast Europe" there is a list of countries that are, according to the text, "geographically, at least partially, described to be within the region". A source is given: Jelavich, Barbara (1983a). History of the Balkans: Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries. Vol. 1. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9780521274586. as well as pages 1-3 where the reader is supposed to find this information. I am reading the source right now and the term "Southeast Europe" isn't mentioned anywhere on those pages, nor is there a list of countries belonging to said region. I might be missing something so please correct me if I am wrong. In case nobody corrects me I will deem the section to be unsourced and consequently delete it. — GeographieMan^[~MSG~] 18:42, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I've now removed the unsourced part; additionaly I found out that not ony doesn't the main (Barbara Jelavich) source mention anything about Southeast Europe on pages 1-3, so don't (for example) three sources given for Cyprus. I have also added a new sourced section called "Standing Committee on Geographical Names" which is used in almost every other article describing Europe's subregions. — GeographieMan^[~MSG~] 14:23, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Croatian status

I understand you are quoting a paper when you classify Croatia as Central Europe by cultural criteria, but that doesn't make it factually correct. There is no comparison between the cultural similarities of Croatia and other Southeastern European countries and the cultural similarities of Croatia and Hungary, Germany, Poland, Slovakia, Austria, etc. (Central European countries). Croatians have almost the same language as Bosnians and Serbians, share the same traditions, have similar traditional meals, and so much more. Whoever wrote the paper you are quoting either has no idea what they were writing or has an agenda to distance Croatia from other Southeastern European countries by spreading misinformation. Since Wikipedia is about facts, I don't think misinformation should have a place on this site, regardless of who wrote it. 176.220.89.185 (talk) 22:14, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

For over 1600 years Croatia historically has been more intertwined with the Vatican, Venice, Austria, and Hungary than Serbia. Other than the failed Greater Serbian experiment of a country called Yugoslavia, Croatia had minimal interaction with Belgrade. Yugoslavia is dead and no amount of brainless nonsense will revive that disastrous monstrosity of a state. 46.188.246.118 (talk) 06:51, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Croatia

Claiming that Croatia is culturally closer to Germany, Poland, Austria, etc. than it is to Serbia and Bosnia and Hercegovina is beyond rediculous. 176.220.89.185 (talk) 22:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)