Talk:NBA draft

National Basketball Association High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject National Basketball Association, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the NBA on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.National Basketball AssociationWikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball AssociationTemplate:WikiProject National Basketball AssociationNBA articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

7 Rounds to 2

What about why they switched from 7 rounds to 2 rounds?--68.167.34.42 17:58, 26 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

the change to 2 rounds is notable. Some information about this change should be provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Necronudist (talk • contribs) 13:45, 24 June 2007

Edit attribution for likely soon-to-be deleted page

I merged the information from the soon-to-be deleted article List of NBA Drafts into this page. Per GFDL, here is the edit attribution data for that page:

09:47, 1 February 2006 JzG (nomination for deletion) 21:28, 9 January 2006 Dale Arnett (Added placeholder for 2006.) 19:18, 9 July 2005 KSchutte 23:39, 17 June 2005 WikiDon m (Make columns) 17:20, 15 May 2005 Flcelloguy (Added 2005 Draft) 00:33, 13 January 2005 MisfitToys m 19:56, 3 November 2004 Zoicon5 (Category:National Basketball Association) 03:24, 3 July 2004 64.12.116.18 (see also) 05:34, 25 June 2004 RadicalBender (New list) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Youngamerican (talk • contribs) 01:46, 5 February 2006

In the 2005 NBA draft, the Chicago BULLS had no picks- that is allowed Also, The New York Knicks traded away two future first rounders in the eddy curry trade — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.217.205 (talk • contribs) 22:34, 14 May 2006

Fixed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mwhope 10:29, 16 February 2007 (talk • contribs)

Content

should each draft page contain more than a list of the players selected and the location of the draft?

should a list of all-star/all-nba team/defensive team/etc. appearances exist
should news reporting on the quality of the draft or the players exist (i.e draft bust, 'less heralded' drafts) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mwhope 10:29, 16 February 2007 (talk • contribs)

Busts and steals?

Why isn't there a list of busts and steals like in the NHL Entry Draft page? --necronudist 13:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Because we want basketball articles to be neutral. --fullcourt 21:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Draft Rights

What happens if a drafted player refuses to sign with the team? Do all the draft rights expire after 3 years? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.34.250 (talk • contribs) 20:31, 11 July 2007

Lottery?

There's no mention of the lottery or how that system works to decide who picks in what order. I think this is a significant element of the NBA draft that has been left out of this article. Someone more familiar with the workings of the lottery system than I should step up to the plate here. --Heavy (talk) 16:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would tend to agree. There is not even any mention how the draft process works--do all teams go? in what order? How many rounds are there? and so on. Right now, this is an extremely weak article. 166.217.187.175 (talk) 20:55, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sociology

Why does the Sociological Impact section begin with a definition of sociology? This detracts from the article. --Kek926 (talk) 23:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Round history

How about something detailing the history of the rounds, meaning the change from 7 to 3 to 2 rounds over the years? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.162.60 (talk) 15:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mock draft

Is this section really necessary? If it is, it needs to be more than advertising for writer's websites. I will give it a day to hear opinions. I am inclined to remove it unless someone argues for it in such time. Whorchatasoto (talk) 01:56, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Links

External Link section I really don't understand what is the beef all about. How is it a site like Basketball Reference gets a golden pass but every other link that gets put on there is edited out? Call me crazy but I thought the whole meaning behind wikipedia is open source information. But various page natzi's seem to have it in. As a site owner I truly wonder does Basketball Reference pay for this access. My site was edited out months ago but I see another user submit an external link and then bam it gets deleted. Why is Wikipedia discriminating?Thedraftreview (talk) 12:47, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

International Players

Not needed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.90.121 (talk) 22:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Explanation

This article may be well written, and may contain couple thousands of words, but there is no real explanation about what exactly the 'NBA Draft' is. I myself did not understand what this event/system is all about. People explore Wikipedia in order to gain knowledge, but this article seems to have been written specifically for people who already have the knowledge about this subject. There are lots of important details missing. For instance, How did this event started? What was the purpose behind it? From where do the teams select the players? Do they have any contact before the selection? And what is the meaning of this draft? How does it affect the selected players? The team? And there is need of further information on this 'Lottery'. Who came up with this idea, and why? What is the meaning of 'Teams holding their picks through trades'? Tudmotu (talk) 11:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with the above statement, I'm not from the US and was interested in what the "draft" was, (It was the focus of an episode of Sports Night) yet this doesn't really explain it or if its legally enforcable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.101.44 (talk) 09:02, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand either, in particular the article never really discusses:

How the weightings work to ensure that the worst performing lottery team has a better chance at an early pick.
How the second round works, at all. The article says "The lottery does not determine the draft order in the second round of the draft." but effectively nothing to indicate what *does* determine the order for the second round. 19:46, 24 February 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.187.233.202 (talk)

Another question

My question is how many players are in the draft? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.133.83.53 (talk) 05:13, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved, although this does not preclude another RM about using the abbreviation. --BDD (talk) 17:04, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

National Basketball Association draft → National Basketball Association Draft – "NBA Draft" is a proper name for this event as the official NBA Draft webpage indicates; thus per MOS:CAPS#Proper_names "Draft" should be capitalized. Please apply the same to all pages about yearly NBA/CBA/related drafts. --Relisted. -- tariqabjotu 15:10, 23 July 2013 (UTC) Arbor to SJ (talk) 23:26, 14 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – Sources suggest that it is seldom treated as a proper name. Per MOS:CAPS, that's why we have it at lowercase. Dicklyon (talk) 23:37, 14 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose reliable sources do not capitalize draft. Sports Illustrated, ESPN, Yahoo, NY Times, USA Today all do not capitalize it. Hot Stop talk-contribs 23:39, 14 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. There is no evidence that the lowercase form predominates, so the undiscussed move should be undone. (I do not in the least accuse Dicklyon of acting out of line at all. This was a good-faith move that I oppose in equal good faith.) Red Slash 06:38, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Even if you discount the evidence I and Hot Step presented, the usage is still very mixed, so per MOS:CAPS we choose lowercase. Dicklyon (talk) 16:10, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And you can get idea how many of those n-gram counts are due to titles and headings by clicking through to book search. It's hard to find a page of 10 hits with more than 3 using the capitalized from in sentences. The 2004 page, for example, has only one (The Complete Idiot's Guide to Basketball) with "NBA Draft" in other than headings. And recall that WP uses sentence case for titles and headings, per WP:NCCAPS. Dicklyon (talk) 21:46, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this is a valid argument at all. When referring to the "NBA Draft" after the term "NBA Draft" has already been said, it the word "draft" would always be in lowercase, just as the word "university" should be in lowercase in articles such as "Boston University". What matters is when referring to this event at the lead sentence. Is it styled as "NBA draft" or "NBA Draft"? I don't think anyone's making an RM to move Boston University to "Boston university".

Also, "NBA Draft" is used to distinguish it as the NBA Draft as opposed to other drafts, such as expansion drafts, for example. –H T D 05:06, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, nobody would propose Boston university, as Boston University is consistently capitalized in sources. I can't imagine why you say it would always be lowercased after the first use. Very unlike the NBA draft. I'm not sure what you mean about capitalizing to distinguish; I don't see that in sources, and it's not compatible with WP style per MOS:CAPS. Dicklyon (talk) 05:24, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The graphs do look really impressive, until I saw the y-axis is less than 0.00002%. What does that mean? How big is the sample? And why are we using Google Books? Yeah I know the draft has been covered in books, but Google News must be more appropriate here? Are there any options for a case-sensitive Google News search?

"NBA draft" can mean the draft for rookies, an expansion draft, a dispersal draft, or any generic draft, or event with the word "draft" on it the NBA holds, just as "Boston university" means any university in Boston. The "NBA Draft" is the proper name for the draft held every June for rookies, just as "Boston University" refers to the Boston University. –H T D 09:30, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the annual NBA Draft is a TV special, hence you can argue MOS:CT (just as any prospective article about LeBron's infamous decision will be entitled as "The Decision" and not as "The decision"). Can anyone who has TV Guide check out how they named this show? Was it in title case? That is if TV Guide covers sporting events such as this one... –H T D 09:42, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the percentages are percentages of all n-grams, not percentages of books. They do this so the relative frequency can be compared across years. The threshold for inclusion is pretty low (32 occurrences iirc), and you can get a further idea by looking at individual year trigram stats, like 2002 NBA draft, where the lowercase form meets the threshold but the uppercase doesn't. Some other years like 2000 don't make it at all. So maybe they're counting only about 30 or so occurrences per year. If you find other stats, let us know, but I'm sure they're not going to suddenly reveal consistent capitalization. As for the TV special, yes of course the show title would be capitalized in TV Guide. But I don't think this article is about the TV show; it's about the draft. Dicklyon (talk) 21:56, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Heh? No 2000 NBA Draft? Figures because it is the worst draft ever (LOL).

As for n-grams, what are they? Are they hits on something? Hits of what?

As for the TV show, the TV coverage, when we're talking about the sporting events, is coextensive. The draft is the show. I don't anyone's making "2013 NBA Draft (TV show)" and a 2013 NBA draft, with different capitalization. It will be absurd if somehow someone makes an article about the show separate from the draft, and they all have different article titles, as long as capitalization is concerned, isn't it? –H T D 05:28, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See about ngram viewer; I learned a lot myself by looking that up. I agree it would be silly to have an article on the show per se. Dicklyon (talk) 05:33, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So the search is exclusive only for books? While a separate article for the show would be silly, it is plausible and should pass WP:N. We could have 2013 NBA Draft on ESPN article, then have a separate article for the 2013 NBA draft, all capitalized differently. –H T D 05:55, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Books and some magazines; print publications. Here's a mag with mixed case usage. Dicklyon (talk) 06:01, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So yeah, whatever is in Google Books: books, magazines, journals, the like. While those may be extensive, in terms of the NBA Draft, the most extensive coverage should be newspapers (before the internet) and websites in the internet age. We can't base our decisions on a sample size of 30 when the 2013 NBA Draft alone has 6,150 results in Google News. –H T D 06:15, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

True, let's look at those, too. Generally, books are pretty representative of what well-curated sources do; certainly enough to show that the term is not consistently capitalized in sources, which is the criteron in MOS:CAPS. And beware of web-search snippets, since they prefer to show headings, titles, and other capitalized uses; click through and look at usage in sentences. And beware of focusing too much on the 2013 NBA draft, which does not yet have mature coverage. Dicklyon (talk) 06:53, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

AFAIK, Google News does turn out search hits when the search string is found in the body. As for the 2013 draft, I used that since it is the most recent, and most news hits would have not yet died due to link rot, although this is an American event there shouldn't be much problem on that. –H T D 15:11, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, snooping around individual search results, the search also gives out the result for "NBA's D/draft". Any writer of repute always has a smaller "d" for the word "draft" when the sentence is structured that way. I dunno how that inflates "NBA draft" vs. "NBA Draft", since as stated earlier, even news websites (of repute; the ESPNs of the world), do use the smaller case "draft", while other lesser websites (the DraftExpresses of the world) primarily use "Draft". –H T D 15:35, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, usage is mixed. But go back to MOS:CAPS for how we handle that: "Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization. Most capitalization is for proper names or for acronyms. Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is a proper name; words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in sources are treated as proper names and capitalized in Wikipedia." – Dicklyon (talk) 17:33, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose—indeed, and please let's not do our utmost to make readers-in-search ponder what NBA means (see below). Tony (talk) 03:45, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

NBA

One thing nobody's brought up; the title should be abbreviated to NBA draft or NBA Draft. Nobody refers to it as the National Basketball Association draft. Nobody. Red Slash 08:31, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. This was badly titled from the get-go. This should've been named either as "NBA draft" or "NBA Draft", the same reason the NBA Finals (or NBA finals???) isn't at "National Basketball Association F/finals". –H T D 09:30, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that it should be "NBA" Draft (yes, capital D). Spelling out the title goes against all cases of WP:COMMONNAME. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody? Dicklyon (talk) 19:40, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Leave it to you to catch me on an exaggeration, Dicklyon.

No, but I firmly think this is the WP:COMMONNAME. Red Slash 23:53, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't disagree, except that you're proposing the case error again. On the other hand, the fact that the short acronym-based name is most common is not necessarily determinative. COMMONNAME is in support of recognizability, one of 5 criteria. The spelled out name is at least as recognizable; arguably more so. Dicklyon (talk) 00:15, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I did the search you did above on this issue, and the search strings with "NBA" had more hits than "National Basketball Association". Interestingly, 0 hits for "National Basketball Association Draft", the original title of this article prior to the move (lol). –H T D 15:11, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also more interestingly, I saw a couple of instances of "National Basketball Association Draft" (every word in title caps). What's the deal here?

It's really too bad we can't measure Google News hits as they are not case sensitive, but one would imagine on how the options stack up as per WP:COMMONNAME, with some theories:

NBA Draft
- Let's face it; this is the default frontrunner here. If it is not that widespread, then why are WP:RS split on capitalization, and even using both instances in the same article! If it is not at all supposed to be even an option here, WP:RS won't be using the capitalized "Draft".
NBA draft
National Basketball Association draft
- (Apparently this includes "National Basketball Association's draft"; also might be the case for option #4 and probably all four options.)
National Basketball Association Draft
- The only reason I can think of for the last two options is that in WP:RS isn't an issue (books and maybe magazines), or WP:RS in which the reference per se treats itself as if it is authoritative and formal, they do spell out what "NBA" means.

As per recognizability (which is apparently not a word), if you're a basketball fan, or heard of basketball, "NBA" would be more recognizable than "National Basketball Association"; the reverse may be true if one hasn't heard of basketball. The disparity isn't as big though as the recognizability between "FIFA" and whatever "FIFA" means. –H T D 15:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move per request.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 14:35, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

National Basketball Association draft → NBA draft – The previous requested move showed that the word "draft" should be lowercase. But one thing I think is clear is that National Basketball Association should be abbreviated as per overwhelming common usage (see also NBA Finals). Here's your proof. BDD said in his close of the last RM that this new RM could proceed right away. Here goes. Red Slash 02:04, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Beyond the fact thing brings the title in line with a number of other NBA related articles. Further, I believe it's a fair argument to name that the acronym is common name and widely understood in English.--Labattblueboy (talk) 06:28, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Common name, and more concise. bd2412 T 13:56, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Request Move title

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 (talk) 07:43, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

NBA draft → NBA Draft – NBA Draft is a proper noun. Thus, it should be in caps. Robert4565 (talk) 14:13, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The evidence presented in the prior RM on this topic overwhelmingly supports keeping the 'd' in draft lowercased, per multiple reliable sources. To quote myself "reliable sources do not capitalize draft. Sports Illustrated, ESPN, Yahoo, NY Times, USA Today all do not capitalize it." Calidum ^{Talk To Me} 14:33, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

NBA.com does capitalized the 'D' in Draft. Look at the "Events" section.

Robert4565 (talk) 15:26, 2 July 2014 (UTC) It seems that there is a mix of capitalizing the 'd' in NBA Draft. Some reliable sources do and don't; it's interchangeable. I guess it wouldn't really matter then? Robert4565 (talk) 15:26, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Per WP:COMMONAME, the spelling used by reliable sources should be used, not the official name used by the NBA. Since there is a current mix of usage, there is no overwhelming need to change the existing name at this time. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:34, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on NBA draft. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061027155717/http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com:80/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/06/24/gallery.nbabusts/content.15.html to http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/06/24/gallery.nbabusts/content.15.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 07:10, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Selection process - so much missing info and needs to be rewritten

The section on Selection process talks about the history and about eligibility (high school, age, graduation, internationals) but does not describe the selection process. The basic questions are not answered: (1) it mentions 'two stages' but does not say what are the stages, what happens in them, when are the stages, what are the differences among the stages? (2) who and how makes the order of the teams who pick players? (3) which team can pick first? (4) what are the rules of the draft? Topjur01 (talk) 06:37, 19 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]